Tue Dec 4 16:01|||||||||Carmen
Holotescu just entered
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi, is anybody here?
Tue Dec 4 16:38|||||||||Patrick
Fitzpatrick just entered
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hello
Carmen Holotescu:
Hello, Patrick, nice to see you!
Carmen Holotescu:
How are you?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hello Carmen -- good to see you too!
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
I am not too bad - you?
Carmen Holotescu:
Fine, I had 8 hours of classes f2f 
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
This workshop seems to be going well
Carmen Holotescu:
I hope
Tue Dec 4 16:41|||||||||Stephen
Downes just entered
Stephen Downes:
Hiya 
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi Stephen
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Stephen
Stephen Downes:
I'm curious, what time is it CET?
Carmen Holotescu:
How are you, what do you think about our work together?
Carmen Holotescu:
We have 15 min till 5 CET
Stephen Downes:
I'm just reviewing the material so far, to get caught up...
Stephen Downes:
5 p.m, right? (I presume CET = Central European Time) -- it's 10:45 a.m.
here in Ottawa
Carmen Holotescu:
Stephen you joined only today, didn't you? You are so welcome!
Stephen Downes:
Yes, I signed up last night but didn't get the change to log on until today
-- I'm doing orientation for my new position at the National Research Council
so I'll be on and off, but I will try to keep up
Carmen Holotescu:
Stephen we hope to find more about you, don't forget to write on conferences
Stephen Downes:
OK, I will
Stephen Downes:
I am just scanning the list of resources about online communities...
Stephen Downes:
I have collected a lot of resources on them, see:
Stephen Downes:http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/website/find.cgi?matchstr=community&sort=dbs,key&dbs=Link,Article
Carmen Holotescu:
Thanks a lot, I'll browse a little later
Carmen Holotescu:
Patrick I saw you entered many times on Chat
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Yes - always looking to chat with people about many aspects of learning
Carmen Holotescu:
Do you think Chat can be useful for communities of practice?
Carmen Holotescu:
Do you know www.trainingzone.co.uk, they use very much it for meetings
with experts
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Yes - for me to understand learning delivery is a great thing, the difference
in attitudes, development, styles around the world
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Bringing all of this together is very productive
Carmen Holotescu:
Patrick, I suppose you have links with a lot of people
Carmen Holotescu:
It's very important to understand, to have new experiences
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Networking is key to understanding this industry - most of my links are
in Ireland and England -- this is a great opportunity to network outside
with people like yourself
Carmen Holotescu:
One year ago I had information more about e-learning in USA or Canada,
this year I dig a lot on projects in Europe
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Do you see a major difference between Europe and America/Canada?
Carmen Holotescu:
Stephen e-learning is on a large scale in Canada, isn't it?
Stephen Downes:
Yes it is, there are projects in just about every college and university,
a lot of private industry, and a number of standards boards etc
Carmen Holotescu:
I undestand Stephen
Stephen Downes:
Just reading through the discussion on community... some good comments
& background info
Tue Dec 4 16:51|||||||||Claude
Whitmyer just entered
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi, Claude, nice to see you
Carmen Holotescu:
What's the time at you?
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi. Am I early or late.
Carmen Holotescu:
Claude you are just in time
Claude Whitmyer:
7:55pm PST
Carmen Holotescu:
It's 5 to 5
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Claude
Carmen Holotescu:
You work day and night
Carmen Holotescu:
You see till now we all chosed different colors
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi Patrick, Carmen, and Stephen
Carmen Holotescu:
What do you think Claude about our job till now?
Stephen Downes:
Yeah, I like the 'choose your colour' option
Stephen Downes:
Is this chat archived?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
I went for green because I am Irish
Carmen Holotescu:
It is Stephen, and yes Patrick
Claude Whitmyer:
This system has many of the features of the major marketshare holders.
Good job, Carmen!
Carmen Holotescu:
Thanks Claude, it's only a start, I use it for my online courses
Claude Whitmyer:
Participation has been light, so far. But rich.
Carmen Holotescu:
It's much better than most of the workshops I saw in Europe
Stephen Downes:
Finished reading the online communities discussion...
Carmen Holotescu:
In USA the workshops are more practical, I like them
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
I am finding that most workshops I am going to are very repetitive
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Here in the UK - that is
Claude Whitmyer:
Patrick, when you say "going" do you mean online or ftf?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
ftf
Claude Whitmyer:
Interesting...
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
I feel this has led to much confussion for people - the same messages given
in different ways
Stephen Downes:
What I notice isn't really in the discussion (perhaps I'll post a note)
is talk about online communities as being centered around some set of activities
Carmen Holotescu:
Stephen we'll have a conference on communitiess of practice
Stephen Downes:
The earliest communities I joined online were MUDs... sure there was chat
and all, but it was always set in the context of going on quests, killing
dragons, collecting gold, exploring...
Stephen Downes:
Carmen: yes, but that's not exactly what I mean
Claude Whitmyer:
Stephen, sounds like real life <grin> ...every job an adventure...lots
of dragons, etc.
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes I know them
Stephen Downes:
Yeah, there's always dragons *grin*
Carmen Holotescu:
Please Stephen you are welcome to post your proposings
Stephen Downes:
OK, I'll save my thoughts for a post then
Carmen Holotescu:
Claude do you build the environments you work with?
Carmen Holotescu:
Your team I mean
Claude Whitmyer:
Sometime I build, but usually I use what the client has, ranging from Blackboard
to Lotus Learning Space.
Carmen Holotescu:
Blackboard is the most used in USA, also in Europe a lot
Claude Whitmyer:
I thought WebCT still had the biggest market share in Higher Education.
Have they lost that.
Tue Dec 4 16:05|||||||||Jane
Knight just entered
Jane Knight:
Sorry I'm late
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi, Jane, welcome1
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi Jane
Jane Knight:
Hi there
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Jane
Carmen Holotescu:
Blackboard and WebCT base on their communities
Carmen Holotescu:
This is their secret
Carmen Holotescu:
How are you, Jane?
Jane Knight:
Blackboard is growing very fast
Claude Whitmyer:
"base on their communities" can you say more?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
What is Blackboard?
Carmen Holotescu:
On their site their users find a lot of information, can share with the
others...
Carmen Holotescu:
Can see best practices courses and so on
Claude Whitmyer:
Blackboard has just announced a close partnership with Microsoft, has a
lot of people worried.
Carmen Holotescu:
Patrick, is a large firm in USA with a good e-learning product
Carmen Holotescu:
Used in HE and schools
Jane Knight:
They are all over Euope too ...
Claude Whitmyer:
Blackboard, WebCT are "Course Management Systems" that help you build and
manage online courses.
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Thank you -- I will check them out
Stephen Downes:
www.blackboard.com
Carmen Holotescu:
Why worried, Claude?
Claude Whitmyer:
Fear of being forced to use Blackboard if you use Microsoft operating systems
Tue Dec 4 16:10|||||||||Wilson
Azevedo just entered
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi, Wilson, welcome!
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi Wilson
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Wilson
Carmen Holotescu:
Wilson joins us today, he's from Brasil
Claude Whitmyer:
What time is it in Brasil?
Wilson Azevedo:
Now is 14:18h in my Windows clock...
Claude Whitmyer:
It's 8:10am here in San Francisco.
Wilson Azevedo:
Hello, Claude, Patrick, Carmen, Jane, Stephen...
Tue Dec 4 16:12|||||||||Richard
Flyde just entered
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Richard
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi Richard
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi Richard
Richard Flyde:
Hello everybody, sorry I am late
Wilson Azevedo:
It is a very sunny day here in Rio de Janeiro...
Jane Knight:
Foggy and misty here in UK (Midlands)
Claude Whitmyer:
Overcast, but the rain has let up here in San Francisco.
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Wilson - stop -- it is cold, wet and dark here in the UK
Carmen Holotescu:
Don't mention that Wilson, here in Romania is so cold
Wilson Azevedo:
[Where can we get a log of this chat?]
Stephen Downes:
Bad link in materials page... Managing Distance Learning - New Challenges
for Faculty ... comes up 'file not found'
Carmen Holotescu:
I'll verify, I know I did just before the opening
Jane Knight:
Is that THE famous Stephen Downes?
Carmen Holotescu:
A log with who is in or the transcript?
Claude Whitmyer:
It's amazing how cavalier some folks are about maintaining their links.
Wilson Azevedo:
The transcript, Carmen...
Carmen Holotescu:
I'll publish the transcript
Jane Knight:
... of Stephen's Web fame
Tue Dec 4 16|||||||||Nic
Nistor just entered
Nic Nistor:
Good evening!
Carmen Holotescu:
Hi, Nic, welcome
Stephen Downes:
Um...
Claude Whitmyer:
Jacob Nielsen, the usability expert, recommends at least putting an automatic
referral page where an old page was. He's worried about the web becoming
cluttered with junk URLs.
Carmen Holotescu:
Why so late, I saw you entered 1/2 h ago?
Claude Whitmyer:
Hi Nic
Wilson Azevedo:
What a good surprise! You use Hurricane Electric too at TimSoft!
Nic Nistor:
Actually, I dind't have the intention to chat
Carmen Holotescu:
Why, Nic?
Nic Nistor:
too much to do for today...
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Hi Nic
Stephen Downes:
Nielsen has a good point... there are some efforts at a solution, like
purl (permanent URL www.purl.org) and makeashorterlink.com
Nic Nistor:
Hello everybody
Claude Whitmyer:
What's "Hurricane Electric"?
Stephen Downes:
Jane: Stephen's Web, yes, that's me
Wilson Azevedo:
HE is a hosting service in USA. We use it at Aquifolium too (http://www.aquifolium.com.br/educacional)
Carmen Holotescu:
Wilson, what's that?
Stephen Downes:
Famous, though? Hardly
Jane Knight:
To me you are
Carmen Holotescu:
Stephen, I know you too, than; very glad!
Stephen Downes:
Wilson Azevedo:
Carmen, it's your web hosting provider at TimSoft...
Carmen Holotescu:
Maybe another Timsoft
Carmen Holotescu:
So, me and Jane have to tell you that Inez Giles didn't answer at our last
messages, so we have to manage the next conference alone
Stephen Downes:
I like the Brown paper (), haven't seen it before, it's good
Claude Whitmyer:
What's "Hurricane Electric"?
Stephen Downes:
Brown paper, The Process of Community-building in Distance Learning Classes
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes it's a very good one
Wilson Azevedo:
OK, Carmen, my mistake: TMN is on HE server, not TimSoft...
Carmen Holotescu:
Jane, did you try to call Inez again?
Jane Knight:
Sorry, I didn't manage it
Carmen Holotescu:
Nic, do you give online consultance to your students, on Chat?
Nic Nistor:
moment, I'm on the phone...
Jane Knight:
multi-tasking
Carmen Holotescu:
Being from electronics also he manages that
Jane Knight:
Can I ask how many people have actually managed/facilitated a learning
community
Nic Nistor:
Claude Whitmyer:
!
Jane Knight:
?
Stephen Downes:
Having email updates during this online conference was a good idea...
Stephen Downes:
Jane: I have
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
We have been involved in the development of a (type of) learning community
Carmen Holotescu:
For your team or clients?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
For a client
Carmen Holotescu:
Nic, you missed my question about using chat for online consultance for
your students
Claude Whitmyer:
! = raising hand to answer question -- yes I have managed/facilitated learning
communities
Carmen Holotescu:
Please Jane take the managing of Chat, then
Jane Knight:
I see a lot of clients/universities who want to include collaboration and
communities but I don't think they understand what it means - in terms
of resources
Wilson Azevedo:
I've found Lisa Kimball's paper...
Carmen Holotescu:
Do you want to use ! and ?, maybe we are not too much
Wilson Azevedo:
Please, point to http://web.archive.org/web/20010602115505/www.tmn.com/~lisa/dist-fac.htm
Carmen Holotescu:
We have her at links
Wilson Azevedo:
But it is out for now...
Claude Whitmyer:
Thanks, Wilson, for the corrected URL. Interesting looking paper.
Stephen Downes:
I like the I. Berreman quote in Kimball's paper
Wilson Azevedo:
So this URL from Archive.org is where we can now find it...
Nic Nistor:
Carmen... sorry... what was your question?
Carmen Holotescu:
She is one of the first talking about metaphors
Carmen Holotescu:
Nic, I ask you if you use chat for online consultance for students
Nic Nistor:
We use chat, yes
Carmen Holotescu:
Because I do with mine
Nic Nistor:
But we don't have something like chat consultance
Claude Whitmyer:
When I use chat, I usually have no rules during the first one, so that
folks can see how cacaphonic it can get. Then I introduce guidelines for
the second one illustrating what a few rules can do to improve the effectiveness
of the space.
Nic Nistor:
If my students have questions, they use to write me mails
Nic Nistor:
Our work groups in the seminars use chat - with 4-5 participants at once,
no more
Claude Whitmyer:
Nic. Did they write you mails during the chat or instead of the chat?
Nic Nistor:
Claude: they write mails anytime, day and night...
Claude Whitmyer:
Chat can be used like a lecture (one to many--only lecturer speaks) or
like teleconference many to many.
Wilson Azevedo:
I use to do the same, Claude...
Claude Whitmyer:
It's dependent upon the rules.
Jane Knight:
And expect an immediate answer
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
With too many participants you can loose control
Carmen Holotescu:
Some sites use Chat for meeting with experts, but they colect the questions
before
Wilson Azevedo:
At the begining and at the end of the chat meeting we have a free chat...
Claude Whitmyer:
"they write day and night" and wonder why it takes you so long to answer
<grin>
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes, we see it other way then the teenagers
Nic Nistor:
Claude, I use to answer right when I receive a mail... of course this takes
a lot of time
Claude Whitmyer:
Wilson, I hadn't tried the "free chat" in every session. That seems like
a good way to let off some steam before getting down to the task.
Wilson Azevedo:
But for the most of the time we use some rules like "ask for the chance
to talk and talk only when we ask you"...
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Yes -- the great aspect of chat room is - you cannot be stopped from saying
what you want to say
Claude Whitmyer:
I started out answering students one at a time, but then I figured out
if I bunched my replies up, sometimes I could use the same outgoing message
for the answer.
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Everyone has a voice
Wilson Azevedo:
Some chat servers let you moderate chat sessions...
Carmen Holotescu:
No one now
Jane Knight:
So what is the preferred/best way of managing a chat session?
Claude Whitmyer:
Some commercial products like Placeware, Centra, and WebEx give you a lot
of control over the chat.
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
That is a good question
Nic Nistor:
I'm afraid I have to go now... sorry...
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes, they also print slides, images...
Claude Whitmyer:
Adios Nic
Nic Nistor:
Claude, I am looking forward for your answer in the discussion forum
Carmen Holotescu:
Bye Nic, then, see you soon
Nic Nistor:
Good bye everybody! see you offline 
Jane Knight:
Wiedersehen
|||||||||Nic
Nistor just logged off.
Richard Flyde:
For those of you who hold regular chat sessions, do you find that your
students/learners give better responses in text than they would in a face
to face meeting?
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Limited people and specific topics to talk about. One host to controle
the chat room, and invite all to speak
Carmen Holotescu:
In text but in conferences not on chat
Claude Whitmyer:
Richard, I find the responses in Chat marginally worse than ftf. But asynchronous
responses (conferencing) are much more reflective.
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Do you think people find it easier to respond in Chat that ftf
Claude Whitmyer:
Chat's greatest benefit is that it offers a "bonding" experience that is
difficult to replicate in conferencing
Jane Knight:
Carmen, should we establish some rules for chat then?
Carmen Holotescu:
Jane, we have to ask the others if they want another
Claude Whitmyer:
Shy people tend to find chat and conferencing easier than ftf
Claude Whitmyer:
and it's hard for the vocal to dominate.
Richard Flyde:
Thanks Claude, one of my reservations is that you miss out on emotional
responses from a person i.e. Facial/body movement etc.
Stephen Downes:
To Richard: *shrug*
Carmen Holotescu:
Claude, don't you think the online interaction makes you to lose your shy
also for f2f?
Claude Whitmyer:
What's amazing about online (chat/conferencing together) is that people
tend to make up for the missing nonverbals by becoming verbally more intimate
more quickly.
Stephen Downes:
Claude: I agree. I've seen it a lot
Claude Whitmyer:
I think familiarity and a sense of safety helps shy people come out in
ftf meetings. And chat can help with that.
Wilson Azevedo:
Carmen, I couldn't read your reply to my question about this chat's log...
Carmen Holotescu:
Sorry, I told I'll publish it or if you think only send it by email to
the participants
Wilson Azevedo:
Ok, Carmen!
Claude Whitmyer:
My vote: Both publish and send.
Wilson Azevedo:
I agree with you, Claude!
Jane Knight:
Me too
Stephen Downes:
Both
Claude Whitmyer:
What do you think the odds are that we would each log on and choose a different
color (it happened)?
Carmen Holotescu:
You and Nic the same
Stephen Downes:
I think there's a formula for calculating that...
Claude Whitmyer:
He's gone, so I couldn't see that.
Jane Knight:
Color says something about the personality!
Carmen Holotescu:
We can make a psychological portrait using the colors chosed
Claude Whitmyer:
And rust colored people tend to ...
Stephen Downes:
My colour matches my website
Carmen Holotescu:
Mine, the peace, calm I search for
Richard Flyde:
I'd thought of this colour as a rather fine claret!
Stephen Downes:
Anyhow, gotta go, it's lunch time... see you all later & I'll try to
post some notes in the discussion area
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
My colour matches the Irish Leprechaun
Jane Knight:
Good to meet you at last Stephen
Carmen Holotescu:
Please Stephen!
Stephen Downes:
Jane & Carmen, I'm putting a note & a link in my daily newsletter
about this conference, so you may get some drop-ins
Richard Flyde:
To Stephen *wave*
Claude Whitmyer:
Bye Stephen.
Jane Knight:
That's kind of you
Carmen Holotescu:
Thanks & Bye
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Bye Stephen
Claude Whitmyer:
Time for me to think about going too.
Stephen Downes:
You can preview today's newsletter at http://www.downes.ca/news/OLDaily.htm
& send me a correction if you see anything to be changed (what you
see will, of course, be the 'under construction' version)
Carmen Holotescu:
Bye Claude, talk with you soon, a good day
Stephen Downes:
Anyhow, gotta go
Carmen Holotescu:
Ok, Stephen, Bye
Jane Knight:
Bye
Stephen Downes:
*wave*
|||||||||Stephen
Downes just logged off.
Richard Flyde:
Thanks for your useful and interesting comments Claude
Carmen Holotescu:
Like always
Jane Knight:
Yes very valuable
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Bye Claude - hope to talk in depth with you in soon
Wilson Azevedo:
Well, I think my time is over...
Claude Whitmyer:
thanks to all of you for this stimulating exchange. Later...
|||||||||Claude
Whitmyer just logged off.
Wilson Azevedo:
Good bye for all of you!
Jane Knight:
Bye
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Bye Wilson
Wilson Azevedo:
I'll read the log later...
Wilson Azevedo:
Bye!
Carmen Holotescu:
Ok, Wilson, bye, thanks for coming and hope to learn more from your postings,
sorry if the scenario here was not perfect
Richard Flyde:
Bye Wilson
|||||||||Wilson
Azevedo just logged off.
Carmen Holotescu:
Richard, Patrick please send me and Jane your propoings for fostering the
workshop, if you have
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
And then there was four
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes, I wanted to say the same, but not little, not black
Richard Flyde:
Thanks for the enjoyable meeting. Patrick, I will see you in London tomorrow
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Carmen - can I ask what you are expecting from Richard and myself? - Proposings
Carmen Holotescu:
Maybe it's time to go if you think so
Jane Knight:
Well the hour is up ...
Jane Knight:
But for me it was fun
Richard Flyde:
Goodbye all
Carmen Holotescu:
Bye
|||||||||Richard
Flyde just logged off.
Carmen Holotescu:
Yes, if you think we should add something you are interested to discusss
on conferences
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Yes - Jane it was good to finally live chat with you
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
Carmen -- we will get something over as soon as possible
Carmen Holotescu:
Thanks Patrick you are kind
Patrick Fitzpatrick:
I got to go now -- Thank you very much for today - looking forward to the
rest of the week.
Carmen Holotescu:
Bye Patrick, hope to meet you again soon
Jane Knight:
Bye Patrick - speak to you soon
|||||||||Patrick
Fitzpatrick just logged off.
Jane Knight:
Carmen do you want to continue to chat for a bit?
Carmen Holotescu:
Jane, I have to go, I'm at the university
Carmen Holotescu:
Jane I'll write you a message about the next day
Jane Knight:
Ok speak to you later
Carmen Holotescu:
Bye, dear Jane!
Jane Knight:
Bye Carmen - dont work too hard
|||||||||Carmen
Holotescu just logged off.
|||||||||Jane
Knight just logged off.